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Julia


From critically acclaimed novelist Sandra Newman, a brilliantly relevant ...
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What role do rituals such as the Two Minute Hate play throughout the novel? Which rituals do we observe in our culture and why? Are there any that you feel are particularly helpful or harmful?

Created: 11/30/23

Replies: 9

Posted Nov. 30, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
davinamw

Join Date: 10/15/10

Posts: 3442

What role do rituals such as the Two Minute Hate play throughout the novel? Which rituals do we observe in our culture and why? Are there any that you feel are particularly helpful or harmful?

Residents of London perform various rituals, such as the Two Minute Hate and the daily Rhythmic Jerks. What role do you feel these and other rituals play throughout the novel? Which rituals do we observe in our culture? Why do you suppose we practice them? Are there any that you feel are particularly helpful or harmful?


Posted Nov. 30, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Tired Bookreader

Join Date: 08/19/11

Posts: 214

RE: What role do rituals such as the Two...

Any patriotic rituals are unnecessary. Pledge of allegiance, respect of a flag, political decorum has become a joke.


Posted Nov. 30, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
candaceb

Join Date: 03/30/14

Posts: 54

RE: What role do rituals such as the Two...

The Two Minute Hate ritual were designed to bring out terrible feelings against certain people/ideas by repeating them constantly in a group so people were desensitized to hate and expressions of individual ideas. Much like the rallies of Hitler and a certain political candidate today, they were designed to make people feel like part of a group and special for thinking in a certain way and reinforced in the thoughts because everyone else was participating. Ritual can certainly be positive also. Look at the way we try to have special rituals in the way we celebrate holidays and birthdays or sounds or chants used at sports events.i think patriotic rituals can be very positive if, for example, saying the pledge of allegiance or respecting the flag make us feel part of our country and what it can stand for..the best of us, not unthinking ways of shutting people out or fooling people. The bottom line is that we have to stop and think about the ritual, it’s purpose, and is it representing the best of our humanity or is it being used to manipulate.


Posted Dec. 07, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
lesleyf

Join Date: 05/14/11

Posts: 119

RE: What role do rituals such as the Two...

Wow. candaceb just said it so well - above!! Think about all the jingles for selling things we can all sing along with, from having memorized the simple words and tune!
Barbara Ehrenreich wrote "Dancing in the Streets" to that very tune, in explaining why humans need joy to feel part of a group. I recommend it. Again, James Clavell shows how the ritual of reciting some words can force the meaning to be lost in The Children's Story.


Posted Dec. 07, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
dorothyl

Join Date: 04/15/12

Posts: 146

RE: What role do rituals such as the Two...

I agree with Candace. I also think these rituals are a means of catharsis to provide some kind of outlet for all the regulations in this society. But in the end it just further desensitizes people.


Posted Dec. 09, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
christineb

Join Date: 10/13/11

Posts: 128

RE: What role do rituals such as the Two...

I agree with all of the above responses. It seemed ,though, that some "hated" when the two minute hate began- a reminder I think of the life they literally hated. The example of "Hate week" was really frightening.


Posted Dec. 09, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
vivianh

Join Date: 11/14/11

Posts: 160

RE: What role do rituals such as the Two...

The rituals of the 2 Minute Hate and Hate Week serve to control thoughts & feelings, blame the objects of hate for war and living conditions, and keep the people for introspection and critical thinking. It is all part of the indoctrination to eliminate individualism. It is group think.
There are rituals, however, that are comforting such as a yoga practice, reciting positive affirmations, honoring the flag of one’s country while listening to a national anthem. Some rituals give us a sense of belonging to part of a community. That is one of the roles of religious services for many people. One must use caution and independent thought to avoid indoctrination. What may be a calming ritual for some, such as a religious service, may result in indoctrination to others


Posted Dec. 09, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
beverlyj

Join Date: 12/22/11

Posts: 154

RE: What role do rituals such as the Two...

The Two Minute Hate allows for people to bond together and allows them to follow mob rules and gives them the opportunity to be indoctrinated into group think to help control the behavior of the masses. It also gave the masses to direct their hate to those in power want them to hate.

It helps to control independent thought as the same message got repeated over and over until those who had independent thoughts started to doubt their own thoughts.

All religions have rituals that allows for their members to be part of that religious group.


Posted Dec. 10, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
JLPen77

Join Date: 02/05/16

Posts: 381

RE: What role do rituals such as the Two...

As others have noted, rituals bind people together and the flip side of that can be that this cohesion may be used to exclude, or make the group more open to excluding others—-and beyond that, more ready to engage in some version of the Two Minute Hate. As a nation, we are too diverse to have many public rituals beyond the inauguration, celebrating July 4th, or in some places starting meetings, classes, etc. with the Pledge of Allegiance (a relatively recent and to my mind dubious ritual, if you look into its history). But numerous groups, from families and clubs, faith groups and schools and teams to ethnic and geographic communities, have rituals of their own.

The use of rituals is universal across cultures in history; obviously it fills a deep human need. But in our time, I agree with Candace that we must be mindful of the rituals we engage in, be alert to whether it is positive and does not carry any message that those outside of the group are less worthy, less deserving of respect, less than fully human.


Posted Dec. 28, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
marks

Join Date: 02/25/19

Posts: 112

RE: What role do rituals such as the Two...

My first thought when I read this stream was a connection to Joseph Heller's Catch-22, specifically the chapters that talk about the Captain Black's absurd "loyalty oath." Forced anything doesn't feel real to me. If people want to pray, pray. If people want to say the pledge, pledge. I fail to see how a person's religious or patriotic beliefs are directly related to the number of times we can recite certain verses.


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