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Young Man, Muddled


In his first memoir, celebrated biographer Robert Kanigel tells of "muddling" ...
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What did you think of Kanigel's intention to go to Canada to avoid the draft? Do you know anyone who was drafted, or who managed to avoid the draft? What would you have done in Kanigel's shoes?

Created: 06/14/23

Replies: 17

Posted Jun. 14, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
davinamw

Join Date: 10/15/10

Posts: 3442

What did you think of Kanigel's intention to go to Canada to avoid the draft? Do you know anyone who was drafted, or who managed to avoid the draft? What would you have done in Kanigel's shoes?

What did you think of Kanigel's intention to go to Canada to avoid the draft (p. 84)? If you were around during the time period, do you recall what you thought of the draft at the time? Do you know anyone who was drafted, or who managed to avoid the draft?

What would you have done in Kanigel's shoes?


Posted Jun. 14, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Marcia S

Join Date: 02/08/16

Posts: 514

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I wasn't impressed with draft dodgers at the time. However, based on the odds of injury or death in Nam, I guess each had to choose for themselves. My fiancé at the time was drafted and was to go to infantry training and straight to Nam- no leave time between training and being shipped out for the war! My husband failed his physical and was told he could enlist, but couldn't be drafted because of the failed physical. He had an "out" from Nam and he took it. We had friends who were drafted and went to Nam. Two of them died of cancer as a result of Agent Orange exposure. One local young man committed suicide after returning. One was killed in Nam. It was an awful war.


Posted Jun. 14, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
yarnworm

Join Date: 02/04/22

Posts: 9

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

My brother was #2 the year the 'birthday lottery' was instituted. He went to Fort Meade to have his Army physical. We had discussed taking a trip to Niagara Falls so that he could, literally, walk into Canada; we were at peace with that decision. As it happened, a terrible injury from a car accident resulted in burst eardrums which provided 4F status, thus making him ineligible for the draft. Our family breathed a sigh of relief! I personally knew a number of 18-year-olds who were drafted; many of them did not return and those who did were vastly different people than the boys who left.

I thought then, and still do, that the war was immoral and unjustified. The draft took boys just out of high school and made them 'soldiers,' a role for which they were entirely unsuited. They were young, disproportionately African American and in no way prepared for what they were to encounter. At the same time, boys from wealthier, white families, got 'college exemptions' that kept them safe. I worked for a time counseling boys how to avoid the draft, hoping that a few, at least, would be saved.


Posted Jun. 15, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
laurap

Join Date: 06/19/12

Posts: 408

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I was a senior in college the year of the first Vietnam draft lottery. I knew guys across the full range of numbers -- those with high numbers breathed a sigh of relief and the ones with low numbers scrambled to find a place in the reserves. I knew one who actually went to Canada. My younger brother enlisted in the Marines, and was briefly in Vietnam. My personal feelings about the war were mixed, and I felt how one or if one participated was a matter of conscience.


Posted Jun. 15, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
PinkLady

Join Date: 01/22/18

Posts: 192

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I respected his decision. I was around at the time. My kind gentle brother was drafted and served. I wish he had gone to Canada. My husband would have left but got a deferment we have a good friend who did go. He stayed in Canada for many years. That war was so terribly destructive for so many. At first I judged those who went but realized many had no choice. I'm ashamed of how we treated returning soldiers.


Posted Jun. 15, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
mceacd

Join Date: 07/03/18

Posts: 132

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I used to say if I were a man, I’d go to Canada. It was a flippant thing to say because soon I knew men who were drafted, who joined, who managed college deferments, whose health was ruined by the war,who were injured, who died, who returned from war. All were changed.

Since I come from a military family,I know I would have served. Back then I would have supported those who avoided the draft, but now decades later I find that I feel the most respect for those who did not avoid the draft.


Posted Jun. 16, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
kimk

Join Date: 10/16/10

Posts: 987

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I was a little too young to know much about the draft at the time. My husband, though, was quite concerned about it. He was pretty sure he'd be drafted, so he enlisted in the Air Force (figuring at least he'd be able to choose which service if he enlisted voluntarily). He was extremely lucky, spending most of his service on a mountain in Alaska, monitoring radio transmissions and maintaining radio equipment.


Posted Jun. 17, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
johnw

Join Date: 03/11/12

Posts: 102

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I had a low draft numbers, but opted to go to college instead of joining the military. I wasn't wealthy far from it. Luckily the war and the draft ended shortly before I graduated from college. I look back at that time with saddness. Most of the men that went to war were extremely young and poor. Even sadder was how these young men that risked their lives were treated when they did return home. The poor treatment didn't end with their return, its continued for years and the lack of assistance provided to veterans.


Posted Jun. 17, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Jude Gee

Join Date: 02/08/23

Posts: 17

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I respect Kanigel’s desire to go to Canada. It was a horrible, unjust war, and those who had money and connections either got college deferments or assignments where they were not in harm’s way. We had a friend who was deferred because he got braces put on his teeth! Who went and who didn’t wasn’t fair, it wasn’t just. Poor people, especially African Americans went. Nothing about it made sense or was worth it. So yes, Canada. His desire made perfect sense.


Posted Jun. 18, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
janines

Join Date: 11/21/16

Posts: 102

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I had no problem with Kanigel's decision to consider Canada. The Vietnam War was immoral in my opinion and this has been confirmed, at least to me, with what has come out subsequently about it. I think he went about getting his deferments and doing what was necessary to avoid the draft in the right way not like some people who used lies and deceit to get deferments. I think how this country treated those who served (either through being drafted or enlisting) as a crime. These young men were made the scape goats of US policy and got really treated poorly benefits wise.


Posted Jun. 18, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
cynthiaa

Join Date: 04/14/11

Posts: 112

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I lived through this time in history. At first I was against draft dodgers. Had military family members who told over and over that we had to be in Vietnam to fight communism. But as time went on and friends older brothers were killed, and they left behind pregnant wives and children, it all seemed so senseless. I understood draft dodgers


Posted Jun. 19, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
lynne z

Join Date: 01/06/18

Posts: 65

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

War is always tragic, but The Vietnam War was a complete disaster. At the time I was part of the anti-war movement. After all these years of reflection I still believe it was an immoral war based on government lies (e.g., the Gulf of Tonkin) and the fervor of anti-communism. My heart goes out to those men and women who served their country and were treated so disrespectfully upon their return. I do not blame Robert Kanigel for his decision.


Posted Jun. 20, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Joyce

Join Date: 10/14/21

Posts: 97

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

My senior year in college I was engaged to a guy who decided he was going to go to Canada to avoid the draft. His parents already lived there (I don’t remember why since he was a US citizen). Anyway I went to meet them and thought about what my life would be like away from my family and friends. I also had mixed feelings about draft dodgers. Long story short, we broke up. Fast forward a few years I ended up marrying a guy who did get drafted. He was very fortunate to spend the entire three years in Germany and pick up relevant experience to become an air traffic controller. I may not have embraced Kanigel’s decision to avoid the draft at the time, but like others have stated 20/20 is hindsight. The more I have learned about the Vietnam War over many years past, the more I realize what a horrible decision it was. And then we go and do it again in the nineties with enlisted men and women. Go figure.


Posted Jun. 28, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
triciat50

Join Date: 02/26/22

Posts: 54

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I was too young to have friends drafted, but I had an older cousin who died in a POW camp in Nam. His father was from a military clan and there was no dodging the draft in that family. A son of friends of my parents went to Canada and they were embarrassed, horrified, and basically disowned him at the time. He's still there, but the family relationship never recovered. My brother in law enlisted right after college, and ended up in Thailand for the war, but he lost friends who also enlisted or were drafted. The entire situation was horrible.


Posted Jul. 01, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
lloyden

Join Date: 07/17/19

Posts: 18

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I knew a few that were drafted when I was in my late teens, early twenties. Now as time has gone by, I am close to two Viet Nam vets, and my county was a focal point of entry for many South Vietnamese that left Viet Nam at the end of the war. With those veterans who served most have acclimated well, but it's been a long time. In Washington state, those suffering from PTSD will isolate themselves from society, they become invisible to us. I was never more proud of my community when back in 1977 during the annual community celebration parade stood when the Viet Veterans stood and clapped as they marched by.

I never knew anyone who immigrated to Canada, but many spoke of it as an alternative, but never left.
I would have been drafted if I was a man because my number was 53. Yes, I would have gone, but would have asked to serve with the medics as that would have been a better fit for me.


Posted Jul. 03, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
juliaa

Join Date: 12/03/11

Posts: 276

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I lived through this period (I am two years younger than Kanigel). I had sympathy for the so-called draft dodgers then, and I still do. Viet Nam was, in my opinion, an immoral and unnecessary war for the United States. Yes, I knew people who were drafted,and I have to say, fortunately my friends all came back, but those who went to Viet Nam were never the same afterwards and still struggle today. I wish they had gone to Canada. I was relieved when the draft lottery started, as my brothers got numbers that all but assured they would not be drafted.


Posted Jul. 04, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
catherynez

Join Date: 01/27/18

Posts: 98

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

I thought it would have been a hard decision whether to get drafted or go to Canada. 2 of my uncles were drafted. I don’t know anyone who dodged the draft by going to Canada. I think I would not have gone to Canada.


Posted Jul. 05, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
K Bosman

Join Date: 09/15/22

Posts: 64

RE: What did you think of Kanigel's...

The war was a terrible time and people's view of it definitely does depend on how old you were at the time. Being born in 1957 my experience was much different than my husband's who was born in 1950. For me I remember sitting on the kitchen floor listening to the count of how many had died on the radio. For my husband he dealt with friends going and not coming back. Our family didn't deal with personal loss at the time. Over time, cousins have married into families that experienced loss of brothers and friends have families who have been greatly affected by the mental health affects of fighting in the war. Hind sight is 20/20 but I can very much relate to the idea of wanting to go to Canada. Had I been a guy with a low draft number I'm pretty sure I would have been looking for ways out. My Dad was 40 when I was born and spent 4 years of his life fighting in WWII. He hated war and guns, was involved in the Peace Institute, and taught me to sing "ain't gonna study war no more" on the guitar when I was a little kid.


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