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Young Man, Muddled


In his first memoir, celebrated biographer Robert Kanigel tells of "muddling" ...
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Could you relate to his feeling of loneliness in childhood? Do you think being an introvert or extrovert is a product of nature or nurture?

Created: 06/14/23

Replies: 11

Posted Jun. 14, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
davinamw

Join Date: 10/15/10

Posts: 3442

Could you relate to his feeling of loneliness in childhood? Do you think being an introvert or extrovert is a product of nature or nurture?

The author writes that he "didn't get groups," that they baffled him, "their social force fields impossible to navigate" (p. 29). Why do you suppose he felt such isolation from his peers as a child? Could you relate to his feeling of loneliness? Do you think being an introvert or extrovert is a product of nature or nurture?

Could you relate to his feeling of loneliness in childhood? Do you think being an introvert or extrovert is a product of nature or nurture?


Posted Jun. 14, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Marcia S

Join Date: 02/08/16

Posts: 514

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

Some children aren't interested in belonging to groups, or they might be excluded from groups. If one isn't around others much, it could be overwhelming. If the author was an introvert, then crowds are exhausting to deal with.

I think that introversion is more inherent than developed. It seems that children have a personality from the beginning. I'm sure introversion can be nurtured if one is shamed or made to feel they aren't worthy to be accepted.


Posted Jun. 15, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
kimk

Join Date: 10/16/10

Posts: 987

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

His comment that he didn't get groups really resonated with me. I felt exactly the same way he did, that I didn't understand how to have more than one friend at a time. If two people you like are present at the same time, how do you connect with both at the same time? I never got it and still don't. If anything, it's gotten worse over time, and I think it's actually developed into some major social anxiety. Fortunately I'm relatively happy with how things are so I'm not particularly bothered about it.

I don't know that people are necessarily born introverts; I think one's early experiences are as big a factor. I think as a very young child I was pretty extroverted. But I was an awkward child - fat, crooked teeth, thick glasses, long greasy hair, garage sale clothes - and frankly most of my peers were pretty mean. I think this led to a general lack of trust and consequently a disinclination to try to make friendships.

I don't know what Robert's excuse was! :)


Posted Jun. 15, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
judyg

Join Date: 04/20/11

Posts: 72

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

I believe orientation to our world is based on nature. After we are born with a preference for extroversion or introversion our life experiences can influence how and when we express these preferences and we become more clear on the preference as we age.


Posted Jun. 15, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Lyris

Join Date: 02/09/23

Posts: 89

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

I was an only child and I was "baffled by groups" as well. I like Jung's definition of introversion/extraversion - that of "getting energy" either from being alone or with others. I do, even today, find it takes a lot of energy to interact with groups.

I do also think that socialization can be learned and children having difficulties can be greatly aided by adults who recognize the problem. Often just leaving them to their own devices only increases isolation.


Posted Jun. 15, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
mceacd

Join Date: 07/03/18

Posts: 132

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

I agree with Lyris. I was also baffled by groups, didn’t feel I belonged, but I don’t know if I felt lonely as a result. The energy theory makes so much sense. I don’t have vast experience with psychology (except lots of therapy!) but it appears that introversion/extroversion is a combination of nature and nurture.

I did feel that Kanigel seemed to resent himself for being not being more interactive with people. He seemed to blame his parents as well.


Posted Jun. 17, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Jude Gee

Join Date: 02/08/23

Posts: 17

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

I think we are innately more introverted or extroverted, but in Kanigel’s case, I suspect it would be made even more extreme by being promoted two years ahead in school. That’s a huge developmental difference at that stage, and he would feel-and probably be treated—as a “baby” or at best, ‘different.’ That surely makes for loneliness.


Posted Jun. 18, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
janines

Join Date: 11/21/16

Posts: 102

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

I'm an extrovert by nature so as I remember growing up I didn't have feelings of loneliness - and I had 3 other siblings. But there are ages differences between my siblings. For example, my youngest sibling is 8 years younger, close to Kanigel's age difference with his brother, so in effect you can become almost an only child - I was never close to this sibling either. I also didn't get promoted to a class group two years older than I was which I think could have contributed to Kanigel's feelings of loneliness. But I think we can all experience loneliness because let's face it there is a bit of tribalism in school with the "in" groups or other groups that emerge. I think being an extrovert or introvert is more something that is in your "nature" than is nurtured.


Posted Jun. 20, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
SusanD

Join Date: 06/17/23

Posts: 2

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

I believe that a person is born into a place along the spectrum of introvert or extrovert but that experience and desire to change can move you along the spectrum in either direction. I'm an innate introvert, so I completely understood the author's views as a child--not understanding how groups of friends formed, watching in awe the children who seem born to create and travel in a group of friends. I was intrigued by the author's thoughts on "what would have happened if I had just said "yes" more". Would the "yes" experiences have changed him, or simply reinforced his feelings of social awkwardness?


Posted Jun. 21, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
Jill

Join Date: 12/14/22

Posts: 100

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

I agree with the points SusanD made about being born in a place along the spectrum of introvert or extrovert. I also wondered how much being an only child for 7 years and then moving ahead in school so fast contributed to his feelings of loneliness. It was hard not to wonder how much effort he put into trying to develop skills that would make him feel more of a group. Despite opportunities to test the waters and put himself out there, there were times when he made conscious decisions to keep to himself, day after day. I was amazed and also saddened while reading about his time in France and his decision to stay in his room, reading books in English, rather than learning to read and speak French and explore Paris. Even though he acknowledged retrospectively that he was ashamed of that decision, I could not help but wonder how many times he made similar decisions just because it was easier to remain alone and not stretch himself a bit by venturing out in small doses and interacting with others.


Posted Jun. 27, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
beckys

Join Date: 08/12/16

Posts: 259

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

I was an only child and so tended to spend more time alone and introverted when I was young. But as I got older, I became more confident and realized that I really loved people and being around larger groups. So I guess I would say that is is nurture, since I was one way when I was younger and another way as I got older. I think nature made me shy as a child, but the desire to be less uncomfortable around people as I grew older was what prompted me to work on becoming more outgoing with people.


Posted Jun. 28, 2023 Go to Top | Go to bottom | link | alert
triciat50

Join Date: 02/26/22

Posts: 54

RE: Could you relate to his feeling of ...

Nope. I grew up with four brothers and sisters, I had 34 cousins relatively close by, and a neighborhood where every house was bursting at the seams with kids. We didn't have a chance to be an introvert (although admittedly I used to hide away sometimes with a book LOL).


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